It Doesn’t Taste Just Like Chicken
April 16th, 2007 by tempe
“But we do see Him who has been made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone.” ~ Hebrews 2:9
In light of my brother Trey’s posts about the sufficiency Christ’s atoning death, I was wondering if folks would comment on the following sermon by John Piper (I believe Piper would share a similar view as Trey on 2 Peter 3:9; I know Piper holds a similar view to that of C.H. Spurgeon on 1 Timothy 2:4).
The sermon is entitled “For whom did Jesus taste death?” and the text of the sermon can be found here.
I’d have to say that, as far as what Christ accomplished for all men at the cross, other, much older Reformed Theologians have answered this very clearly and accurate: he removed all legal obstacles that stood in the way of God saving guilty sinners (i.e., he fulfilled God’s justice, so that God can be both just and the justifier of the ungodly); he imputed the sins of every man to Christ insofar as he suffered the wrath of God that any man would suffer if he were to suffer God’s wrath against him; and he provided a sinless and blemishless propitiatory sacrifice sufficient for all men that can remit their original and actual sins if they will believe. I’d say that’s quite a list of things that Christ really accomplished at the cross.
My difficulty is with anyone who would say that Christ actually saved the elect at the cross. The reason is that it all but says explicitly that, from the point of the cross, the elect are not and, indeed, as far as God’s justice is concerned, cannot be under God’s wrath and curse. In other words, arguing for too much at the cross means creating an imbalance in the redemption accomplished and redemption applied distinction. If the redemption accomplished is weighted to the point that it saves automatically, just by its being accomplished, then there is nothing to apply at all.
I do believe that God has a special intention to save the elect, and them alone. So, in that sense, the work of Christ was “for” the elect in a way it was not for all men. However, the problem i have with common formulations of Reformed soteriology is the idea of limited imputation. That is to say, i disagree with the idea that only the sins of the elect were imputed to Christ. If that is the case, there is no universal sufficiency at all. Indeed, if only the sins of the elect were imputed to Christ, verses like Hebrews 2:9 become meaningless altogether. The heart of the difference is whether one affirms limited or unlimited imputation to Christ on the cross. Both positions (contrary to what you might hear from many High Calvinists) are orthodox Reformed positions that hold to particular redemption. But typically, those with the unlimited imputation view do not hold that Christ somehow purchased regeneration, faith, and repentance or such things for the elect. Those gifts like regeneration, faith, and repentance are, as held by the lower Calvinistic view, special gifts given to the elect alone based solely on the decree of God, and not purchased at all.
I don’t know how much that helps, but i hope it gives you some idea of where i stand on this. Thanks for the link, though.
My hit and run statements . . .
It is probable that “everyone” in Hebrews 2:9 should be qualified by phrases which follow, such as: “many sons” (2:10), “those who are sanctified” (2:11), “my brothers, in the midst of the congregation” (2:12), “the children God has given me” (2:13), and “the seed of Abraham” (2:16).
In other words, the “everyone” of which the author is speaking is the whole body of those who believe.
I think this is allowing the context to define the terms rather than our own modernist notions of how language is used.
As for 1 Timothy 2:4 (”God wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.”) . . .
In the context of this letter Paul is not dealing with the doctrine of predestination. Paul is writing to Timothy to encourage him to teach the false teachers at Ephesus not to teach their particular doctrines any more, because those doctrines deviate from the gospel. These “teachers” were emphasizing things like genealogies. Now why would someone want to place a lot of focus on a genealogy? Unless they wanted to demonstrate those who were in the right group, and those who were not. And when we look at the genealogies of Scripture (at least the favorable ones) what people group is most represented? Jews.
Now if there is group of teachers in the church who are emphasizing genealogies so as to show that “Christian” Jews are better off than “Christian” Gentiles, and because of this emphasis a division is made in the church between those on the right side of the tracks and those one the wrong side, imagine what their attitude was to people outside the church? It probably wasn’t a loving, accepting embrace of those people!
Paul, on the other hand, is saying that God is not the God of the Jews only, but of Gentiles as well. God is not simply the God of Israel, God is also the God of the other nations as well. That’s why in vs. 5 Paul backs up his statement in vs. 4 by appealing to monotheism. There’s only One God, the Creator of all things, including all nations. There’s not a God for the Jews and a separate God for the Gentiles. There’s not a God for Christians and a separate God for non-Christians. This fact suggests that if God wants people in one nation to be saved, He wants people from all nations to be saved (something we actually see in the OT itself . . . see the Abrahamic covenant!).
Because God wants people from all nations to be saved, He sends His Son to be the one mediator between God and humanity. The Man, Christ Jesus. The Word made flesh. God Incarnate. This mediator stands in the gap between us and the One God.
By this mediators life, death, and resurrection He purchases (not makes possible, but purchases) the salvation of all types of people, not just Jews, but Gentiles as well.
Read the passage from Revelation that says Christ has purchased people (again not simply making salvation possible for every person, but He has purchased particular people) from every tribe, every language, every people group, and every nation.
Then look in 1 Timothy 2:7, where Paul hits this theme again when he proclaims the fact that God has ordained him (a Jew of Jews) as the apostle and teacher, not to the Jews, but to the Gentiles.
This seems to indicate Paul was not making a blanket statement that God wants every single person who has ever lived and ever will live to be saved. What Paul is saying is that God cares for people outside of the nation of Israel. God cares for people outside of the visible church. God cares about the destiny of sinners. And that’s the gospel!
In other words, the point God is making to His church in 1 Timothy 2, is about how the gospel message should be spread. We’re not to hoard up the gospel message and keep it all for ourselves in some type of holy huddle. We are to freely and abundantly give the gospel to the sinful world, just as God freely and abundantly gave the gospel to sinners like us.
Similar stuff could be said about 2 Peter 3:9 . . . but I’ve already said too much!